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Geezerglider

No more GWRRA!!!

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Geezerglider
I received an e-mail yesterday evening from a friend who has just completed a officers certification course with GWRRA, and was sadly informed that they will no longer allow public prayers as it may offend certain religious groups. I refuse to pay dues to an organization that trys to mandate my convictions. Thousands upon thousands of men and women gave their lives, and many more thousands have suffered physical and emotional scars for my right to pray and worship as I please. Now the organization has joined the "politically correct" crowd to take away my rights. :rage::rage::rage:

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Rudy

I'm ahead of you by about a week.

 

 

 

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AspectOne

While I do not believe on God, I believe in your right to pray as you see fit. It is what this country was founed upon.

 

I am with you Frank, Ric. If anyone cares to remember our original settlers came here to escape taxation and rligous persecution yes???

 

Well welcome to the common wealth again folks... its only gonna get worse with a muslum in office too.

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DigbyODell

[user=1316]AspectOne[/user] wrote:

While I do not believe on God, I believe in your right to pray as you see fit. It is what this country was founed upon.

 

I am with you Frank, Ric. If anyone cares to remember our original settlers came here to escape taxation and rligous persecution yes???

 

Well welcome to the common wealth again folks... its only gonna get worse with a muslum in office too.

:clap::clap:

 

Same here

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Geezerglider
Well, I have learned later today that the policy has always been in effect since the inception of the organization. Our chapter has just never conformed to it, so I did not know. That however doesn't change my mind about the national organization. Last I heard, congress convenes with a prayer, so why should GWRRA be worried about political correctness? I take pride in being politically INcorrect. If my beliefs offend certain groups, I could care less. :blah::blah::blah:

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pwhoever

Not trying to stir the pot but quoted from the Officer's Handbook:

 

 

 

"The network you now join as an officer of GWRRA is wholly responsible for the communication link between the Association and our Members. By acceptance of this officer’s position, all of us have agreed to support the ideals of GWRRA and to provide our Members with a relaxed, fun atmosphere… free of politics and religion. Politics and religion are a personal choice and should always be left to the individual discretion of the Members. Our sole purpose is to keep it simple, make it FUN, and say YES 99.5% of the time......"
And I found this:

RELIGION

GWRRA is purposely designed to be free of religious persuasion and ceremony. This is not because the Association is opposed to religion but religion is, and should be, a personal choice. No Member should be compelled or forced by virtue of their attendance at a GWRRA function to participate in a religious ceremony that may be in conflict with their own beliefs. If for some reason it is determined that prayer is appropriate, make it a moment of silence so everyone in attendance can offer their thoughts in their own way. If worship services are offered at GWRRA functions, they should be announced in advance and denoted as “optional†on the event program and staged in a separate location for those who “want†to attend. This discussion pertains to all levels of GWRRA.

 

 

http://www.gwrra.org/oconnect/ohb/OHB_COMPLETE.pdf

 

 

 

Put in that context I don't really have an issue with it. There is a time and place for everything. I have seen more casual conversations go downhill very quickly when the topic drifts to religion or politics. It has turned people against one another on many occasions. I too believe in God but have my own ideas on how to honor Him and communicate with Him. The organization wasn't founded on the belief in God but as a social group dedicated to riding Goldwings. There are Christian motorcycle groups that can accomplish both ideals. Yes I also believe that He is an important part of the founding of our country and the "Powers that be" trying to be PC is completely wrong. We need to be true to our original values and if you wish to come to this country, than you have to learn to respect that.

 

 

(climbing off of soapbox now....) but on another note, the GWRRA blatantly violates it's own "ideals" by allowing a political topic board on its forum.

 

I am in no way trying to defend GWRRA, just expressing my thoughts. And yes I am a member but I am not involved in any chapters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Joep

( and the stick stirs some more))

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Rudy

[user=1702]pwhoever[/user] wrote:

(climbing off of soapbox now....) but on another note, the GWRRA blatantly violates it's own "ideals" by allowing a political topic board on its forum.

But at least they are now protecting the public from it by blocking non-members from seeing it. :yes:

 

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Bountyhunter

I was a member of GWRRA for 6yrs. I'm totally fed up with giving my money to that bunch. All the money goes to Arizona and it seems thats where it stays. To hell with that. I DO NOT need to be a member of that org. to ride my wing. I Digress.:egypt::egypt::egypt:

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David in the Woods

The bigger question here seems to be how accepting we may be of someone with different thoughts, religion, race, culture ... tempered by how "in the face" we feel we need to be with our views ... or rephrasing, can we agree to disagree on some things, and still get along? Hence, the suggestion of some groups to limit some touchy subjects being brought up.

 

Well, here we are folks. Life is not just "black & white", although the decisions we make in the end come down to falling onto one side of the line or the other. There are many shades of gray.

 

I, by the way, am a Christian, and an American, and I am proud of both ... rephrasing, my Christian heritage tells me that I am not to be proud of it, but it gives me comfort.

 

If we are the “melting potâ€, with myriad religions, races, cultures, political views, and ways of life, then there is some wisdom in the notions of “don’t ask, don’t tell†(take this in its broadest meaning, please), and having moments of silence to respect what you, personally, hold dear, without having someone else pushing their unsolicited, heartfelt notions onto you.

 

As the large mouthed comic on Carol Burnett used to say, “Lighten up, Lady!!!†(and gentlemen).:surprised:

 

Now, that said, I do have a problem with the notion that some topics have to be totally off limits … that is pretty extreme. I think we should have the right to introduce topics to discuss, and limit the fervor of our offerings as all responsible, civil adults should … being polite. Otherwise, how do we go about getting strangers together to win friends and influence enemies. ?? :baffled:

 

 

 

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Rudy

I'm as light as I will be getting on the subject of GWRRA and my money supporting it.

 

The government is methodically forcing PC on all of us and we live with it because we have little choice. I'm not the type to support those things and philosophies I don't believe in.

 

I'm sure as hell not going to spend my money to a "non-profit" that is in conflict with my views on many fronts.

 

But I have no problem with it if you or anyone else chooses to.

 

 

 

 

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David in the Woods

Actually, I have not heard anything here that speaks to the GWRRA limiting or promoting a change in religious philosophy … just doing the same as this very forum does in attempting to shield the membership from unnecessary discord from having someone else’s religious values imposed on them. People are free to practice their religion without having to make a public display of it.

 

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Geezerglider

Rudy, those are my sentiments exactly. I don't expect the rest to follow my lead because of my convictions. Now, just suppose some organization tells their members they can't say the pledge of allegience because it may offend some particular nationality or a sect of a different religion because the words "Under God" are included in it.

 

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David in the Woods

Frank,

 

Perhaps, even with the volume of my verbiage, I did not speak of my sentiments and convictions, which I suspect are very similar to yours. Rather, I was philosophizing on my views that help me get through these same frustrating moments.

 

I am a vet and I was in scouting at a scout meeting in the early to mid fifties soon after the “Under God†was added to our Pledge. I distinctly remember the program including the change, and we said the Pledge several times. I think it was a good, wise, thoughtful addition … it deserves to be in it … and I truly hope no one is able to remove it. It is fortunate that this revision was made when it was, as our populace was more accepting on the whole at that time in comparison to today.

 

It boggles my mind that our president does not show his utmost respect for our flag and symbol of freedom by saluting our flag. With a recent addition of a required semester of civics in our public schools, maybe a few of these ideas and ideals can better be introduced to and adopted by our youth.

 

 

 

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Geezerglider

Update:

 

At the local chapter meeting this past Tuesday, I was not present, but I've gotten reports from several who were there.

 

The "stuff" really hit the fan. The new chapter director called for a "moment of silence" someone started reciting the Lord's Prayer, at which he screamed "What part of silence do you not understand". Shortly after the overwhelming majority walked out of the meeting, including all the top staff members, former CD's, the chapter's web master, i.e. everything that it takes to make a chapter run.

 

It is going to be interesting in the next few weeks to see what happens with other chapters. I predict GWRRA will lose a huge portion of its membership.

 

 

Update II:

 

This week the rest of us are holding an "organizational meeting" to keep the group together who just want to ride without all the hooplaah. We will have an e-mail list, but no regular meetings, no dues, and be affiliated with no group. :banana::banana::banana:

 

BTW, we've been told that we're no longer welcome at GWRRA functions. :woohoo:

 

 

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Rudy

Very interesting.

 

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fysty-1

I thought the purpose of these forums what to discuss our love for these fine bikes we ride???? I thought that politics & religion were supposed to be kept at home. As a Canadian, I don't need o hear the everpresent super heavy US patriotism, that make me & others think that if you are not American you are less than. Seems to me there was another that thought that way back in the 1930's Germany! I am a Gay female who is a very ridgid Christian, but I get the feeling with some of these thread that if I showed up @ some dues, I may be hanged. This is a motorcyle forum!!!! And Dean you can delete this if you wish, buty this post is just to right wing for me to keep quiet!!!!

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AspectOne

[user=919]fysty-1[/user] wrote:

I thought the purpose of these forums what to discuss our love for these fine bikes we ride????  I thought that politics & religion were supposed to be kept at home.  As a Canadian, I don't need o hear the everpresent super heavy US patriotism, that make me & others think that if you are not American you are less than.  Seems to me there was another that thought that way back in the 1930's Germany!  I am a Gay female who is a very ridgid Christian, but I get the feeling with some of these thread that if I showed up @ some dues, I may be hanged.  This is a motorcyle forum!!!!  And Dean you can delete this if you wish, buty this post is just to right wing for me to keep quiet!!!!

I am not what you or most people here would consider a "patriot", nor am I religious, as most of you know I do not even believe in God Per Se'.

 

Fysty, I have been watching this post very carefully... actually I am allowing some leeway here as it has been mostly folks expressing their personal beliefs in a structured, decent way. No one here has said anything about gays, or Canada nor have they expressed anything which I can see to be FAR right wing.

 

NOW.... that being said, I do not wish our Canadian members to be offended in any way. Nor any gay members, nor any German members... I think you get where I am going with this. Perhaps, were this post NOT about GWRRA and its policies it would be better served in our Political forum, but thats just what it is about, a discussion of views regarding GWRRA and similar policy. So far I do not see anything that off base.I too get tired of the "God and Country" thing, its one of many reasons I am here instead of that "other" forum. I will continue to watch this thread and knowing our members the way I think I do they will be kind in their responses if not "politicaly correct".

 

Dean would not delete your post for speaking your mind, however, at the same time no one forces you to subscribe to this thread. Please try to understand, it is not just about the bikes we ride and but also about our lives around that sport as well and this topic certainly qualifies in that regard.

 

Unless Dean decides or tells me otherwise, or until it turns REALLY down hill, I will continue to monitor this thread and encourage you and everyone else to continue posting with an eye and ear towards what is BENIFICIAL to all as a whole. We are a family here and I want us to continue to be one. Sometimes family has to agree to disagree.

 

 

AspectOne

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David in the Woods

Well said, both fysty-1 & A-1.

 

We are all very different people that have come together out of love/enjoyment of our sacred Wings ... finding this common ground to share helpful, insightful and sometimes sorely needed information to keep us practicing our "sport".

 

People are free to practice their religion (both in this forum & GWRRA) without having to make a public display of it, which is the first step in shoving your own views onto someone else ... that is an infringement right there,

 

As you have said, we have come together to enjoy this common ground, not go off on tangents lamenting or focusing on our differences & other frustrations.

 

That being said, I see nothing wrong in stating how you might be different, that is often very interesting; however, that is different from using the forum or GWRRA to ACTIVELY promote/practice your personal religion. Saying I am a Christian, which I am, is a far cry from openly breaking into prayer and forcing it onto others.

 

 

 

 

 

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AspectOne

No longer welcome??? I would be talking with someone higher up then because you pais your dues... how bout a refund if they want to act that way ????

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Geezerglider

[user=1316]AspectOne[/user] wrote:

No longer welcome??? I would be talking with someone higher up then because you pais your dues... how bout a refund if they want to act that way ????

My dues were up this month. I sent a letter in with the notice explaining why I would not be renewing. Those who had just paid theirs did get a refund.

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fysty-1

I am soooo sooorrry that I mis led. I could care less what anyones politics are or whether they like me or not. My point is that this is a forum abouty motorcycles & such not religion or politics. I love this forum and for the very reasons that I said in that post. I just got carried away with my rant.:scared::scared::scared::worthy::worthy::worthy:

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Bamaeagle

Interesting.........:ponder::ponder::watching::watching::watching:

 

Hey you know "You meet the nicest people on a Goldwing and also on a Goldwing forum."

 

 

Ride Safe Always!!!!!

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Geezerglider

That is still true Bama. The whole thing might not have turned so ugly except for the new CD, who is a real control freak. There were many other issues than this one that led up to this.

 

GWRRA has some very good programs and benefits they are to be commended for. I really think they excel in their safety promotion.

 

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AspectOne

Fysty no apology needed... you can rant, hell I do it all the time its what we are here for.

 

Frank.... less time with GWRRA means more time to ride and enjoy folks like me who while we are members it is strictly a business thing for us and do not participate anyway....

 

Bama... you meet the nicest people on our forums LOL WOOT!!!! NAGF HUP!

 

A1

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