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bryanw1

J&M Bluetooth Audio

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bryanw1

When I wanted a new GW early this year, but decided after a lot of research that I couldn't live with some of the changes in the 2018, I decided on a new 2017. I learned about the same time that they can be blue toothed, which was one of my main attractions to the 2018. Seems I'm slow to learn, but I don't research the new stuff when I'm not in the market, so it tends to run in 5 to 10 year cycles. After a lot more research, I decided on the J&M setup over the Sena, primarily because I felt the customer support would be better with a small company vs. a world-wide corporation. I've also been dealing with J&M for wired set-ups since about 2000, and knew them to be good at supporting their products.

 

I expected some problems with the equipment because it was brand new, in fact they shipped me one of the first ones to be released. I wasn't disappointed. There were problems with an echo in the intercom system and the phones weren't integrating with the headsets properly. Problem is, I usually only thought about it while riding or when too busy to deal with it. Finally, one Sunday night a couple of weeks ago I got on their website and sent an email to their customer service people describing the problems, hoping for a response the next day. I got and answer back less than an hour later from the owner of the company, John Lazzeroni, which started a chain of events that led to my sending both helmets back to them for updated units that have been developed to deal with the initial problems. They were done and back in less than a week. One phone integration problem persisted with one of the units. I called today, explained the problem, and the tech kept checking into it and calling me back. After about an hour the problem was solved.

 

This has caused me to think about differences in companies. It seems some of the big ones could learn from the small ones. Honda has problems and seems to take forever to deal with them if at all. It's like, "You bought it knowing it was new. What did you expect?" That is somewhat true, but the buyer of the first unit off the line has a right to expect it to either work as advertised, or a concerted effort made to make it work as advertised. Forty-five years ago Ford had Pintos exploding with rear impact due to faulty engineering of the fuel tank. At some point a bunch of high priced, highly educated people sat around a table looking at a cost analysis that found the cheapest alternative to a recall was to continue to pay wrongful death lawsuits until the problem went away. It seems that a group of first graders could have seen the problem with that business model. I owned a Pinto then. Since then, I 45 years and at least 15 cars later, I've never bought another Ford. To top it off was the more recent problem with the Firestone tires being installed on Ford Explorers that were coming apart at freeway speed, killing people. Rather than being gun-shy, they decided again to deny the problem until evidence forced them to deal with it. It further crippled Ford and Firestone. You'd think that something like that would put them out of business, but apparently part of their calculation involved an estimation of the publics' short memory.

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Monkeytrucker
(edited)

GM and the failing ignition switch they denied cause deaths, Toyota and the sudden acceleration problem causing deaths, and the way too powerful air bags made by Takata for many car mfgs.

 

The Toyota acceleration problem was unearthed by an automotive professor at Southern Illinois University.  He found he could duplicate the problem and that the problem was caused by "tin whiskers"  which are the materials in the circuit board, for the want of a better word, corroding causing a whisker like protrusion that would touch the runner next to it and the cruise control to accelerate the car.  Testing afterwards would not show any problems simply because the whisker would be zapped away by the current going thru it.  The Prof. was called to testify before congress and ever since then Toyota has been actively working to get him fired from SIU.  Being he has tenure and cannot be fired unless he actually does something wrong like sleeping with a student (but that happens at all universities and does not usually result in firing, his job is safe.  NASA has since officially made "Tin Whiskers" listed as a problem they have proved to happen and the term is in use in the industry.

 

The exploding air bag problem after much saying it was a fluke was finally addressed by recalling autos in areas the had high humidity.  What was happening is that the propellant used was ammonium nitrate which was a nicely controlled explosion that inflated the air bags.  Only problem was that with high humidity the ammonium nitrate would absorb extra oxygen molecules from the humidity and the extra oxygen in the ammonium nitrate caused the charge to be more powerful.  Of course eventually they recalled hundreds of millions of airbags.  The recall gave the car makers and out because if someone was injured by a bad airbag the lawyers would say "A recall was issued covering your vehicle, why did you not have it done"

 

The Pinto problem was that the fuel tank was also the back space floor so when a rear collision happened the fuel tank would directly inject gasoline into the passenger compartment when the tank was driven into the rear axle differential.  Cure was a steel plate to protect the tank.  Of course the real reason was not addressed.

 

Chevrolet Corvair and rollovers.  That made Ralph Nader famous.  The swing axle on the rear would tuck under in hard turns and flip the car.  VW used the same setup from the first beetle to the 80s (?).  The real problem with the corvair was tire inflation.  Under inflated tires would exacerbate the effect of tire grip and cause the steel part of the rim to dig in and not slide like the tire was supposed to do.  However testing has found that all vehicles can flip in hard turns.  One exception is the Tesla.  with the batteries mounted below the floor the center of gravity is so low that testing could not get the Tesla to try to flip in a hard turn.

 

GM ignition switch was a bad design that failed when people had all kinds of junk hanging from their key chain.  Again they balked at changing the switches until it was found that the brass at GM knew about the bad switch and did not want the cost of a recall.

 

With huge sums of money spent on law suits and the fact that ignoring these failures caused customers to purchase another brand has made it more profitable to immediately do a recall fix and make people feel a company is trying to fix any problem before more people were hurt or killed.  Again it is the lawyers being able to say, "why did you not have the recall done on your car?" 

 

It is a great feeling when a company acknowledges a problem and immediately helps fix the problem.  Your headset problem was a good example of fantastic customer service.

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Mountain Rider

Good information, thanks.  I'm looking to upgrade the intercom on the 1800.  I've considered just sticking with the wired setup, looked at the Sena 20S, and just noticed the J&M recently.  The one advantage I'm seeing with the BT, it bypasses the buzz I've got in the hard wire setup.  Plus, with the addition of a Freewire connected to my Sirius/XM, we've got stereo, phone, intercom, and bike to bike communication.  The only concerns I have, is there sufficient volume, and do the mics provide adequate wind noise suppression.  I'm going with a half helmet for the hotter months, and don't want to aggravate an already annoying situation.  Gotta keep the better half happy.  :wink-sm:

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bryanw1

Mountain Rider. I have no experience with Sena, but my understanding is that you may have more bike to bike capability with the Sena if you are connected to your bike and a passenger. J&M restricts that and can only be done if it is just a single hookup. You would have to verify that. As far as sufficient volume and wind noise suppression, I can tell you both are better with the J&M bt than I have had with any wired setup. That may be due to improved electronics and the larger speakers now being used. Before you pump out a thousand bucks you might want to find someone using the Sena with the bike hookup and try it.

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Mountain Rider
(edited)

I'll look into that.  There are a couple folks at the Honda dealer that use them, one on his road bike, the other on his dirt bike.  The one guy wants to sell me a setup, so is really willing to set one up for a trial. Unfortunately, no one locally carries the B&M.

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Monkeytrucker

Estella and I have the Sena units.  Fantastic range with them.  I bought the additional unit that would put the radio into the helmet but it was worthless.  Not the unit but when ever Estella would speak it overrode the music.  Riding is/was the only time we really had conversations of great length.  A 6 hour ride would have us designing something like an addition to the home or place.  We even worked up a plan for a paddle wheel house boat made out of a river barge.  Of course we had to win the lottery to do any of the dream sessions.  I am looking at mounting our senna units on a pair of head phones or a head band.  They are just way to good at keeping in touch with each other when we are at places we are separated.

 

BTW, we used the head sets so much communicating the we taped a couple of those power bank things on our helmets to provide additional power.  We could get 2 days of riding without having to recharge.  Came in handy on our big western trip.

 

So our vote is for the Senna units but having not tried any others we are limited in comparing.

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Jluvs2dive

I've talked with John via email several times over the years.  He's always been very responsive and helpful.  I've been running their CFRG-BT01 on my 1500 since I bought it in 2008 and love it!  It gave me Bluetooth connection from my phone into the bikes headset system.  I don't have bluetooth helmets, and really didn't want them for a few reasons, so this gives me what I need.  It was expensive but I have been very happy with it.  Unfortunately they don't offer this system any longer, but no surprise since the last 1500 was made some 18 years ago.  I also run J&M headsets in my helmets and have been very happy with them.  I upgraded my Performance Series helmet speakers with the Elite Series speakers and that was a great upgrade as well.  The elite was/is using the same microphone and the cords are a lot more expensive than the Performance cords, so that was the best way for me to get the higher performance speakers without having the more expensive cords, which do wear out with a lot of riding.

John

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RogueWing936
(edited)

We have had the Sena 20s for about 2 years now, I have found them to be very good now I'm not saying they dont have there issues but all in all were happy with them. Range is very good, noise suppression is excellent, FM radio works well, the speakers are NOT for music quality but do an excellent job when some is speaking. We now have upgraded to Sena SRL for the Shoei Neo Tech II, I have no opinion on them just yet only been 3 days of ownership.. 

 

I have never had a problem with Sena's customer support, I know others have but for us they have always been spot on. 

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